It's been 20 years since Starbucks debuted the first pumpkin spice latte in 2003. Since then,Surpassing it's become a cultural phenomenon greater than itself: it's shorthand for fall, for basicness, for femininity, and even for white culture. Why did the PSL become so powerful — and how do food trends garner so much meaning? Host Brittany Luse chats with Suzy Badaracco, food trend forecaster and founder of Culinary Tides, to discuss the $500 million dollar industry, and how little miss pumpkin spice has held on to her cultural power.

This episode was produced by Liam McBain. We had engineering help from Neil Tevault. It was edited by Jessica Placzek. Our executive producer is Veralyn Williams. Our VP of programming is Yolanda Sangweni and our senior VP of programming is Anya Grundmann.